Billie Holiday or Peggy Lee?

I just heard Peggy singing Billie Holliday which was new to me. Not so much like Billie, but it was fascinating all the same. Peggy is Peggy. Billie is Billie. I read somewhere Billie had made the remark about Peggy "That bitch steals every song I ever sang". Don't know if this is true or not but it is interesting, and amusing if true. Just a thought for discussion. Maybe some of the "older" folks who have been on here can reply. Love, Cate

I remember too reading about Billie and not being too fond of Peggy. Both are song stylists and have similar styles but are great artists on their own, in my opinion. Not sure why Billie wasn't too fond of Peggy. Maybe someone can share some thoughts on this topic.

Richard.

I wish that Billie's negative comments weren't the only ones continuously being remembered (or, in some instances, repeated online without context). Billie is actually on record (I mean, in print), saying that she liked and enjoyed Peggy's singing. Billie said that she liked Peggy's singing at a time in which Billie's star was still shining bright, and her personal problems had not yet become known to the wider public.

The negative comment to which Cate referred was, on the other hand, something that Billie allegedly uttered during the last decade of her life, when she (Billie) was down and out. Her drug and alcohol addiction were apparently at a height then. She rightly felt that she was being ostracized by the entertainment industry at large. Not enough job opportunities were coming her way, and neither her record sales nor her press reviews were being reflective of her deservedly high status in the music world. Meanwhile, Peggy was reaching a new height of popularity at that very time. Thus Billie seems to have felt resentful in general, and Peggy might have been just one of the various targets on which she poured that resentment. I have also read a negative comment that Billie made about Ella Fitzgerald.

(I'm not sure if she made the comment about Ella during this same period. I'd have to go check. Even if the period was a different one, the point I am trying to make still stands: the comment against Peggy is the one that modern-day press keeps bringing up, while the snarky comments that Billie made about singers such as Ella tend to be conveniently swept under the rug. Let's not help perpetuate the dynamics behind such unbalanced presentation of the received historical record.)

Despite negative comments such as the one being mentioned here, Peggy continuously gave credit to Billie for her great singing, publicly expressing her admiration for Billie again and again.

Etc.

Ivan

My Dear Ivan, I meant no harm in making the comment about Peggy singing as Billie... or as Billie making the comment about Peg. I did find it amusing if it were true. Poor Billie. I love her to no end. I am not happy about her end. But I do love when I find something where Peg sings as Billie. I must say, Peggy was very respectful of Billie. I think if the downfall that started earlier for Billie was very sad. I, in no way, make light of her sickness. Peggy never made fun of her. I do have a question... did Billie and Peggy ever meet? Thank you for my rant. You and Richard are the best for answers. Love, Cate.

Billie Holiday was great but slowly became very depressed. Some of her later records are difficult to hear. On some of Peggy's love gone wrong classics (Don't Smoke In Bed, It Takes Too Long To Learn To Live Alone, Don't Explain, etc.) Peggy always sounded like she was hanging on by a thread and wasn't quite ready to give up. One of Peggy's last recordings This Will Be My Shining Hour expresses a part of her that still believes in happy endings.

Cate, my apologies: I should have put more thought into my earlier message, before posting it. Instead, no sooner did I notice the thread's topic (i.e., Billie's remarks about Peggy) that my mind went into "complaint mode."

Let me clarify. I meant my comment as a complaint against press reporters and music fans in general. I was objecting to the reductionist manner -- or lack of context -- with which this topic tends to be approached.

It was not until I read your reply that I realized how my "complaint" sounded: as if I was taking you to task (and maybe even Richard, too). My bad.

Far from objecting, I am glad that your creation of this thread has given me the opportunity to "file my complaint" ...!

With this long apology out of the way, let me get back to the actual topic next.

Peggy definitely met Billie, and probably chatted with on numerous times. Most of those chats probably took place after Peggy and one of her several husbands attended Billie's nightclub performances, at the latter's dressing room. So, these ladies were personally acquainted with one another, though never close enough to become friendly. They even shared a loose connection. In 1935, Dave Barbour (the man who would later become Peggy's first husband) had briefly played guitar for Billie. Accompanying the older singer (along with other notable instrumentalists), he can be heard on three of Billie's dates from that year. (At the time, Peggy was just 15 years old, and still living in her native North Dakota, far away from the big-city venues where Billie was performing.)

Peggy was not introduced to Billie's music until 1942 or 1943, when the fellow musicians in Benny Goodman's band, Dave included. I suspect that, back then, the admiration with which many musicians spoke of Billie heavily contributed to Peggy's own great admiration. (For most of her career, Peggy was particularly attuned to the tastes and sounds favored by musicians.)

Billie's negative comments about Peggy were apparently made during the first half of the 1950s, which was one of the more adverse, rough and bleak periods in Billie's life. Billie apparently had the same complaint about several singers (not just Peggy), and she would tell them to their face how she felt. According to bassist John Levy (who was not the same John Levy that had once served as Billie's manager and lover):

When Peggy Lee came around they'd just greet each other and Billie would say, 'Why the f**k are you trying to sound like me?' And Peggy Lee wouldn't take offense. She'd say to Billie, 'It's because I love you. I love everything you do.'

I remember Peggy Lee disliked me for years because she knew my name was John Levy and she told somebody, 'I don't like that John Levy the pimp on account of what he did to Billie' [that John Levy was a pimp/manager who beat Billie and squandered her money].'

And I met Peggy Lee one day at Capitol Records and I said, 'I gotta straighten something out. You think I'm John Levy the pimp that managed Billie, but I'm John Levy the bass player, and I just played bass for Billie for less than a year. Seven or eight months maybe.'

Everything was cool then.
{end of quote}

As for the positive comment that Billie made about Peggy, I just looked that up. The comment turns out to date from 1950 (a wee bit later than I thought). Here it is:

I always loved Peggy -- loved her when she first started, and she's been very fortunate; she's always had the kind of background every singer needs.

Ivan

P.S. Pleased to see mention of "My Shining Hour." It's among Peggy's very best recordings from her older years.

Interesting to read your post Ivan on Billie and Peggy. I think it's clear that Billie wasn't too kind to Peggy and others in the later years of her life when she felt depressed and maybe drug abuse changed her personality and she became more aggressive in general. Sad to know she was such a wonderful talented lady and ended so bad. But also interesting while negative comments on for example Ella aren't mentioned in the press. I never read it. I remember a negative comment on Frank Sinatra, but I am not sure.

Richard

OK gentlemen. We are straightened out on this topic. You just never know what is true or what is not. As far as Peggy singing like Billie, they say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I am sure if Billie would have had a happier ending she would have realized this. Now I have to find Peggy singing My Shining Hour. Hopefully I can find it soon. Love to you all, Cate.